Category: Let's talk
Hey I have a question about using PayPal while being on ssI.
Could I put money in my PayPal account without SSI trying to cut me off or hold it against me in some way?
I might have a bit of money in my PayPal account for helping me out with moving costs but it is a lot i am getting and not sure how to deal with it without SSI getting crazy. I am trying to move then look for a job but I need a bit of help moving since the city is larger and more expencive the the money I get right now isn't enough for me to move. If I get dropped off of SSI then that could hurt me to because the money I could be getting isn't enough to hold me up for long and I might not get a job in that time.
So could I stash it in my PayPal account and use it as I need to for paying off my bills and things until I get a job?
Or will SSI find out I have it then make things hard for moving?
I am not trying to hide a lot of money for non esentual things but for moving and like I said, it is enough to help with the first few months then I should have a job hopefully but if I work it right it can last for a good length of time but I would not be able to go out and buy loads of stuff, just using it to pay bills where SSI slacks with help.
And also, what could happen if I had to put this money in to my bank account then transfor it to my PayPal?
Thanks
SSI, as of right now does not require you to submit records of oline money accounts that are not FDIC insured, such as paypal. However, if you use your bank to transfer the money into it, the transaction will show on your bank statements. Then they will probably see taht you have a paypal account. that being said, I can say I have money in my paypal, and I haven't been penalized because ssi hasn't found out.
i would contact SSI with your questions, better to have them tell you straight out you can't do that or get waved for it instead of doing it and getting in trouble for it
agree with the last post.
strongly disagree with the last two posts. SSI isn't the friggin gestapo. They can't tell you where to put yoru money. It's their own fault they're not in touch with today's technology and don't see paypal as a viable bank acount of sorts. All they're going to do is make sure that you get penalized either way. Because that's how SSI works. The system we have in place right now is designed for people to be helped just enough to survive--barely at that. Never mind getting ahead. They despise you for sitting at home and collecting a check, but they prohibit you from working enough to make ends meet and be able to save a little to get ahead in life. Whatever idiot designed this program only did so to show that the disabled are being taken care of. Now, I understand that those who get SSI don't technically earn their SSD privilages because they haven't paid into the system in the form of income taxes. Yet how are you supposed to contribute to the system when you can't work enough to be able to put back into the pool. Who can survive on only being able to make 80 dollars a month from income/wages? Realistically speaking, no one. So my advice is, go ahead, use your paypal account and try your best to put it in there without the transfer being traced back to your bank account. and then you'll be all right. You should be able to move when you want to or have to without the Social Security administration down your throat or in your pocket. This system is very paternalistic, and what a shame since most of those who receive SSI are independent adults. Or they should be at least.
Go figure.
well said, write away. I'm also thinking about giving it a try myself, since there's no way to know for sure what the outcome will be, until then.
Well I recently transfored $50 from paypal to my bank account because I needed to use it but couldn't without my paypal debit card that I don't have yet. It is in the mail now. but anyways. Would that now let SSI know I have a paypal account since I transford money from my paypal to my bank account? Or could they just think it came from anyone?
PayPal and your bank account are tied together. That doesn't mean you can't save money there. SSI will allow you to have so much money no matter where you keep it, and you can claim moving cost and such. A good idea is to find out what that amount is. You can learn that one there website.
Wrong wayne. They don't post acurate information for such things on their site. How do I know? Because I've experienced it myself. They shold, but they don't. Paypal is not necessarily linked to yoru bank account. They are two individual financial institutions. A 50 dollar transfer won't make a difference. They look at bigger numbers.
So what if I opened a new bank account, deposited the check, then transfor the money to my paypal and then close out the new bank account? Would SSI be alerted that I opened a new account? It would only be open for a week to do it all. I wished I could just have the money and move and have no problems like that move cost claim thing which I have to believe isn't real, (no offence)
I dout SSI cares what the money is for, they still would want a cut. And that kind of defeats the perpus of getting the money. It is just enough for me to survive for a few months and any of less of it could makes things more of a struggle.
So what if I opened a new bank account, deposited the check, then transfor the money to my paypal and then close out the new bank account? Would SSI be alerted that I opened a new account? It would only be open for a week to do it all. I wished I could just have the money and move and have no problems like that move cost claim thing which I have to believe isn't real, (no offence)
I dout SSI cares what the money is for, they still would want a cut. And that kind of defeats the perpus of getting the money. It is just enough for me to survive for a few months and any of less of it could makes things more of a struggle.
sorry, it froze up on me and I thought maybe I didn't hit enter and tried it again. Had to close out the window to get it to do anything.
You're honestly giving SSI too much credit. Don't worry about small money transfers. SSI doesn't have the time and effort to waste tracking small-time transactions, and those kinds of transactions also aren't likely to send up a flag on their system. Just do what you have to do and see what happens for now.
If you open a new bank account, that might get their attention more than if you just transfered money to the paypal account from yrou regular account. Opening and closing accounts makes people really suspicious, especially if their closed a little while after being opened. Your social security number has to be tied to the new account, so it'll be in yrou records that it has been opened. That's like of liek being caught walking away from a burning building with a stack of maches. lol
Write-Away is correct in pretty much everything she's saying. I would definitely not go to Social Security with these questions. It is true that all they will do is penalize you for getting any financial help that is not from them, even if you have more than a valid reason. As far as I can figure, they do not look at money in PayPal, primarily because they've not gotten into the modern era and don't see it as a way to get and save money. Once they get that far, they probably would hold it against you, but they don't seem to have. However, if you contact them and point it out, then they will look at you with more scrutiny. No use shouting the news to them and getting them to look at you with a fine-toothed comb.
Same with the bank account opening and closing. I would absolutely not do that. It would likely get their attention, and would be a neon sign that you were up to something you didn't want them to notice.
PayPal doesn't have to be linked to your bank account, but for most people it is. I wouldn't transfer money from PayPal into your bank account to often if I were you. When Social Security decides to do a case review on you, they often ask for copies of your bank statements, and they can and usually will take notice of any deposits that are not from them, count them as income, and then you're charged for an overpayment. Trust me I know this, I had it happen to me. So I'd not do that if I were you. Once that debit card gets there, use only that to get money out of your PayPal.
I am hoping my paypal debet card will come in before the end of the week.
I had a friend of mine who works with the state call a close friend of hers who works in SSI and the second lady says that if the money comes from a non profit or Charity organization then SSI won't count it against me. Well church and a ESA club I believe falls under these two things. So Wonder if I am safe then??? I kind of feel like I might get screwed over anyways. There is no way of me getting the money in to my paypal without going in to my bank account first. I would have to be the one to cash the check and the only people I trust to cash it for me if I could do that are also on SSI. My family has long ago broke that trust with me. I don't do money with them anymore.
Does anyone know much about this whole thing about SSI not making you report it if it comes from a charity that is non prophit?
What a damn shame this is. So much paranoia about what is and is not acceptable to do with your money. This is why I cash most of my SSI checks and keep the money in a safe. They can't track what you do with cash, as much as they would love to. Another thing that really pisses me off about them is that they want to know if your possessions are valuable. As far as I'm concerned, that's none of their business. And what are you supposed to do, anyway? Write up a list of everything you have in your home and add up how valuable you think each item is? What a bunch of shit.
agreed. I guess we're not supposed to own anything worth owning. Damn, if they only new that half of us own notetakers worth thousands of dollars and all of us are given the too-expensive-for-us-po-folk screen readers like jaws.... Idiot system, like I said before.
sad to say, teh paper check will not exist from SSI for all that much longer, in fact i believe it's next year where they plan to phase it out
Yes come march they are no longer giving out checks, it will all be direct depossited in to a bank account.
direct deposit is much easier/efficient, anyway, in my opinion.
That's true, but there will be nothing stopping me from withdrawing money, and if they don't like it, they can kiss my ass. People still pay bills in cash, after all, its not unheard of. Even though I don't, that's what I'd say I was doing if they really started asking me about that.
I pay my bills all online. I use bill pay and have a check sent to my electric and rent but for my internet, phone bill and such I just pay online.
Shattered Sanity, when they do look at your bank statements, I don't think they care so much about withdrawals as they do deposits. At least that's been my experience with them.
I assumed they wouldn't. But you know what they say about assuming. I would probably keep enough in my account to pay my bills since I don't have that many at the moment, I was just pointing out that they couldn't really call it suspicious if I did withdraw some of it.
wow. are some people paranoid or what
With Social Security, you have to be paranoid, or you get your ass kicked. So yes, we are, but with reason, as most of us can tell you.
yes, Amanda, it's definitely right to be "paranoid" about this sort of thing. however, it's something people who aren't on social security likely wouldn't understand.
Yes, and as I said before, it's a damn shame. If so many people didn't take advantage of the system, maybe it wouldn't have to be so ass backwards.
It's a vicious cycle. People take advantage of the system, so they make it worse. But the more ass bakcward they make it, the more people feel they have to take advantage of it.
Or if the system wasn't so ridiculous, people wouldn't have a reason to take advantage of it. The conditions under which we're supposed to live while on SSI are completely unreasonable. People want to have a life...I'm not saying it's ok to buy fancy cars, high class gadgets, etc. But one needs a bed, to pay bills, and to buy necesities... And we're not given that. Rent these days, in most regions in the northeast costs around six hundred dollars on average. How much money do we really have leftover after we pay the monthly rent, for instance
'
very well said to the last poster. we're literally left with nothing after the bills are paid, and some of us (probably most) aren't even able to pay bills in full. I know I'm not.
I agree with the last two posts. This is one reason I still live with my parents and although I have a few responsibilities, like paying for the Internet and my cell phone, and I sometimes help pay for groceries, it's not an arrangement that works well for me. However, until I find a way to get my own apartment, I'm kinda stuck here. I heard a rumor that SSI will actually be increasing in 2013 due to the cost of living going up, but I doubt it will be any significant amount, plus it may have been just a rumor since the election is so close.
Well i know after paying my bills I have a little less than $100 left for the rest of things like cleaning supplies, bathing things, laundry money, transportation money, co pay for medication and etc...
cat and dog food is included in bills.
But if I have to spend $2.50 on each load of laundry then a few bucks here and there for transportation and so on so on... Well moving is going to cost a couple hundred dollars more on bills and things and there is no way to do it without that extra help that SSI doesn't want me to have.
Right. So I can't possibly be the only one here who sees the irony in posts complaining about people taking advantage of the broken system in a topic where people have discussed ways to beat the system.
SSI was designed for poor people. It should not be a hand out but a hand up. It was not designed as a method for saving money, getting rich or even living comfortably. If you're having trouble living off SSI, it is your only real source of income and you don't know how to beat the system, here are some real suggestions for getting by for the time being: move. Find cheaper rent. Find a roommate -- or several. Drop the internet or cable. Sell plasma for cash. Sell the unnecessary technology that you don't really need to get by. Learn to spend less on food. Get creative. Better yet, try and find some type of employment (yes, easier said than done, I know).
By the way, I'm not sure what Write Away is referring to in post 5 where she states that they "prohibit you from working enough to make ends meet and be able to save a little to get ahead in life." This is incorrect. There are lots of rules and exceptions about working while blind or disabled on SSI that allow you to make good money, save a little and start to live comfortably. For example, students between 18 and 22 can make a lot of money, and blind people can claim blindness work expenses that do not count to their earning limit for the month. Even if none of the exceptions apply to you, you can still earn money while working. The first $65 of your earnings are not considered by SSI, and if I understand their admittedly complicated rules, your earnings are reduced by half the amount of money you make.
For example, let's assume you receive the $698 monthly SSI check. You picked up a job that pays $10 an hour for 20 hours a week. This is $200 a week or $800 a month. Assuming you aren't a student and cannot claim blindness related work expenses which will save you even more money, here's how your benefits should be calculated as long as SSI doesn't drop your paperwork or screw you over somehow else:
$800-65 = $735 (what SSI counts as earned income when determining how much money to give you)
$735/2 = $367.5 (the amount of earned income SSI subtracts from your monthly check)
$698 [your original SSI check]-$367.5 = $330.5 (the amount of your monthly check)
$330.5(SSI check)+$800(earnings from job) = $1,130.5 (amount of money you take home a month, well above $698 and a lot more than all the people who *don't* receive SSI will take home).
The problem I see with the system in general is that I know a lot of people that *do* take advantage of the system, and for the record, I do not think that "taking advantage of the system" includes dumping some of your money into an online account for moving and other essential life expenses. I'm not talking about people who do that because they're legitimately desperate and have no other option. In this particular case, I'm currently thinking of young blind male techie geeks who frivolously spend their SSI checks on the latest tech toys and nothing else. I mean, you don't really need two android phones to play with, that iPhone, iPad, iPod, digital recorder, mac, laptop and Braille Display especially when you don't have a job, don't go to school and only live off SSI, bro. Yet, I know a lot of people, disabled or otherwise, who throw their checks at these types of needless expenses with no real drive or ambition. This is the real problem with the system. It was not designed for this useless purpose.
The other problem with the system, which I do understand, is the unimaginable bureaucracy of dealing with them. Long waits, lost paperwork, and short office hours are just a few things which might trip you up when trying to restle with them. But hell, I guess that's what happens when you get a check from the government every month just for breathing.
Of course, smart, creative and resourceful people will always come up with ways to beat around the system (PayPal, cash, offshore accounts, etc).
Just don't complain about how broken the system is when you're helping to break it.
Brice
I can honestly say that I have sold a lot of my things and I have hardly little now and my cell is pre pay. I don't buy loads of neat tech stuff or anything. I do what I can to save and make my money spread but it still isn't easy. The whole point of me moving is to get a job and this small town doesn't have much to offer. I can't even finish college here because they have three campuses in three towns and just to go to one of the others for a class would be four dollars a trip, thats one way.
I have to have my internet since most of my family lives out of state and I use it as a form of keeping in contact. I also do a lot with emailing and things that are very important. I am not talking about social net working and things when saying important.
I can't get a step up without moving and I can't really move without help and the only way I have found help for moving is in a form of this amount of money for help that will let me survive for a few months so I can work my butt off for a job. But I am faced with SSI blocking me. i just hope that this whole thing is true about them not holding against your income if it comes from a non prophet organization.
I have never heard anything about SSI not counting income from nonprofits, specifically. Again, there are lots of rules and exceptions that might be able to help you. Have you spent time studying SSI's website and informational pages to better understand what they do not count as income? Remember, too, that you can have $2,000 in resources as a single individual -- so as long as your bank account doesn't exceed $2,000 and you don't have any other accounts or resources reported to SSI, you can keep money in your account and do not have to necessarily live check-by-check each month. Again, that $1,000+ can serve as a cushion and won't count against you, as long as you don't have more than $2,000 when they deposit your check at the beginning of the month.
I am going to need more than $1000 for the move, security depossits, my first months rent and the extra for a few months for rent and transportation because here the transportation is pritty cheep. along with what ever else. I wouldn't be worrying if it was just a thousand.
Hmm I will posit the following:
I remember getting SSI when I was in college, this is 20 years ago now. Keeping your SSI is at least a part time job, if not closer to full time. You need to keep up on things - especially if you are working and going to school also. There is a program called Public Assistance for Self Support, I think it is, which means your money is not taken away from you so you can spend your earned income (not SSI) on books, tuition and the like. You just have to send them a copy of your report card every term.
I did have to use the SSDI for a year a few years ago, and that is actually quite different.
I must live in a parallel universe or something, because I and the other blind people I knew out here mostly just worked our asses off, only one person maybe two do I know of who allegedly spend on just toys. And that, I think probably comes from their relatives not the money they get from the rest of us. Just saying, I think most the blind work really hard to make it, and it sickens me how so many are so quick to ascribe laziness to the blind. If you ascribed laziness to women you would be called a sexist: laziness to blacks, racist. So why is it all right to do this against the blind?
This last bit I say as a taxpayer:
If you're on the government and you spend your time volunteering in your community, to me at least, that is a fair trade for services rendered. When we college kids would go volunteer at poor establishments, you know who we'd find working there? SSI poor. Volunteering, who for whatever reason couldn't get a paying gig, but were doing what they can. It's really tough: a lot of working poor fall through the cracks. When I lost my consulting business, and was in the limbo before I could get Disability and get into the Vending program, I found like many working poor it is impossible to get any form of assistance because you're not technically a hobo, you have the kids in school, etc., but even the charities won't have you. Not even for a quid pro quo exchange. This I am not complaining, but am stating as having been a learning experience. I am personally more of a survivalist but I did have to use those programs. And the so-called lazy blind people in the food vending program? I know I worked 6 days a week plus bookwork, and I was no exception.
I think the childish black-and-white type perspective I'll admit I held when I was younger is infinitely flawed. And this laying it on thick about the blind being lazy, which has been around since the 70s, is infinitely sickening.
I certainly don't know what the answer is: Obviously the system we now have is broken. But, perhaps some sort of quid pro quo system where you get compensation for services rendered, which could even out the payload there. That, and most people are more comfortable in a quid pro quo type situation anyway.
Oh and one example of quid pro quo are programs like the Share programs or Gleaners, where you sign up to get food and for that food you volunteer a certain number of hours per week with them. I know poor unemployed who work several of those types of programs, programs that do different things, and in doing so they work as much as the rest of us volunteering in the community and keeping the costs of running the programs at a minimum.
And when the poor buy what looks like a nice toy that maybe the rest of us can't get yet, those same poor aren't paying for a car, the kid's car insurance, the kid's school expenses, etc., because they can't. The amount they would have spent on the $300 toy would not be enough to have paid for all of that stuff for a year. What happens is, and I understand, we all who are working and can't get a damned break, see someone like that and get pissed: it's an emotional, not rational, reaction. And hell, I've done it too. But like all emotional reactions, it never involves doing the actual math to see if they are getting a toy in lieu of paying for what they should, e.g. bonking the system to get free gear, or if their real expenses are so far out ahead of them that the occasional toy is more of a drop in the bucket.
There was people thought we should move from the neighborhood we were living in because it's poor management to live there when you have no real income. But, it would have cost us more to move, and the daughter was seated in a school, so we just made things happen the best we could.
I know people who've been ditched in the recent economic downturn, who are poor now, but living in the nice houses they'd paid for. They can't sell the houses because nobody will buy them. They can't sell the second car because they would be selling it upside down. For the young fools, that means they would end up owing more than what they got, and there would no longer be a payment plan to sustain it.
If anything, this recession should have shown people these types of situations are infinitely more complicated than the pat answers. I do believe the government, and the charities, are both far out of line to not be managing things as a quid pro quo situation, where the beneficiaries aid in lowering the costs by their own involvement volunteering. And by volunteering, I don't mean your pet cause that doesn't benefit the community: it's gotta be like the food share programs do it. Volunteer where it actually matters in your community that will directly benefit the benefactor. Then the relationship quid pro quo rather than benefactor / beneficiary. Those who use the food share programs in some cases partially own them - functioning as a co-op, and those places run a lot more cheaply than your typical institutions.
Leo,
My brief comment about young blind techies taking advantage of the system was simply one example of abuse based on personal situations I've seen recently of blatant SSI fraud. I clarified twice in that paragraph that they were not meant as sweeping generalizations about all disabled people, but just a small rant about a segment of the population I have recently seen who take without giving back. The majority of Americans I know who are on SSI are honest and hard-working citizens just trying to support themselves and their families. Nevertheless, I have witnessed plenty of examples of fraud from many different people. Unfortunately, these types of people lead to generalizing and highly inappropriate comments about the "47%" of lazy Americans which in turn only serves to widen the divide.
My overall comments that I wanted people to take away were as follows:
1) It is ironic to complain about how broken the system is when you have examples of people helping to break it.
2) There are ways to make money from SSI and save money while working. They are complicated, but they are worth reading. It is unfair to claim that you cannot save or get a hand up if you work and receive SSI.
3) There are people who take advantage of the system. In my attempt to defend the original poster, I clarified that I am not referring to people who creatively hide a small amount of money for moving expenses out of desperation as people who wreck the system. I followed this with just one example of people who do blatantly abuse the system to demonstrate the difference between the original poster's situation and the situation of others I know who do abuse the system.
I should clarify my comments weren't directed at yours, and in fact I agree with what you said about it being very possible to do like you said: use it as a hand up. I still contend we as a society may need to reinvent a more quid-pro-quo methodology to do benefits, as people will then take ownership of the situation. The blind lazy commments weren't aimed at you: it's just one of those things I've heard for 40 years, and can count the actual lazy ones I know about on one hand. But, like you, I get frustrated when I see anyone abusing a system like that when working people like you and I are just trying to catch a break, take care of the kids, stuff like that. So, my apologies as I wasn't directing my comments at you.
Thanks for your clarification, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding I assumed there. I just saw your comments about how sickening it is to generalize to all lazy blind people, and I wanted to make sure everyone was clear that my small rant in post 35 wasn't written to paint any sort of broad picture about anyone.
Brice
Nicky see if there is an independent living center near you and in the city you're moving to. I've used them successfully as a great place to get information on some services you can get. There might be programs in place to help you with moving expenses. Also not sure if this is still available, but I think you can actually mail a check to Pay Pal and have your funds added that way.